071: Resourcing the Church for Mental Health (with Laura Howe)

The church is not immune to the growing mental health crisis, certainly not pastors and leaders. And we don’t always know where to get mental health resources for creating resilient individuals and churches. Howe guest today is passionate about bridging that gap.

Laura Howe is a clinical mental health social worker, addictions counselor, and project
manager. She has spent her 15-year career supporting and serving the marginalized
and suffering in her local community. Laura launched Hope Made Strong, an organization dedicated to helping the local church care for their communities without burning out. And launched the Church Mental Health Summit, happening on Oct. 10th, which is on World Mental Health Day.

Links: 
Church Mental Health Summit: https://www.churchmentalhealthsummit.com/
Hope Made Strong: https://www.hopemadestrong.org/about

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Transcript

[00:00:15] Geoff: The church is not immune to the growing mental health crisis, certainly not pastors and leaders, but we don't always know where to get quality mental health resources for helping to create resilience individuals and churches. But today's guest is passionate about. Bridging the gap.

This is the embodied faith podcast with Jeff and Sid Holtzclaw, where we are exploring the neuro neuroscience informed spiritual formation produced by grassroots Christianity, which is growing faith for everyday people. Laura, how is our guest? She is a clinical mental health, social worker, addiction, counselor, and project manager.

She's like. Project managing a bunch of things, which is awesome. She has spent 15 years supporting and serving the marginalized and suffering in our local community. And she helped launch hope made strong, which is an organization dedicated to helping local churches care for. Their communities without burning out, amen and hallelujah.

And as part of that, I think we're going to hear the whole story. She also launched the church mental health summit, which is happening this October 10th, which is the same day as the world mental health day. So Laura, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

[00:01:28] Laura Howe: I'm so excited to connect with both of you.

[00:01:31] Geoff: Yeah. Well, this connection came about because of a connector, a friend of ours who put us together. It was like, Oh, you guys should talk and me. And so that's how we had an informal phone call. I don't know, I think a month ago, I just heard about some of the things you're doing and said, and I were like, wow, that is like really cool.

So you're doing this thing called the church mental health summit. And is it the second or third or fourth year that you've done this?

[00:01:54] Laura Howe: This will be our fourth year. So yeah, so

[00:01:58] Geoff: so no longer just, we'll just try this out once or twice. Now this is like a thing.

[00:02:03] Cyd: It's an annual thing.

[00:02:05] Laura Howe: well, the funny thing is when I, the idea came and we'll go into that story later, but when I did this, the first one, I was blown away at the response and then I was like, okay, God, you got three more years and then we're renegotiating.

[00:02:19] Geoff: I

[00:02:20] Cyd: Oh, so

[00:02:20] Laura Howe: This is the fourth year! 

[00:02:22] Geoff: reasonable.

[00:02:23] Cyd: after this, huh?

[00:02:25] Laura Howe: Oh, it's so funny how we try to barter and negotiate with God. Isn't that interesting?

[00:02:31] Geoff: I think it's mostly biblical. So what is the, so what is the church mental health summit or how did you what did this dream

[00:02:40] Cyd: question do you want her to answer? You

[00:02:42] Geoff: I don't know. You're the great question asker, Sid. So what question would be the next best

[00:02:47] Cyd: Well, why don't we start with what is the church mental health summit? And then you can tell us how you got into it or why, how it came about

[00:02:55] Laura Howe: Sounds good. I think this is going to be a fun conversation. I'm looking forward to this. Church Mental Health Summit is a one day free event where we bring together people with all different lived experience, their practitioners, their pastors, their peers, all talking about faith and mental health and how the church can equip.

And how they and their resources can equip the local church to support mental health in their leaders, in their congregants, and in their communities. And it starts, and it is only an online digital event, although might give you a sneak peek behind the scenes information about what might be coming up.

And I say that very hesitantly with the might be coming up, maybe, but,

[00:03:36] Cyd: on how that

[00:03:36] Laura Howe: it is.

[00:03:37] Cyd: goes.

[00:03:38] Laura Howe: Exactly. Oh my goodness. It's right on point. And really just want to lower the barriers to access. I, when I was doing mental health in my church or developing a care ministry, I was struggling to find who is out there doing really great things.

It all seems siloed and pieced apart. And so this is just trying to, put forward. This is what's happening currently in the space of mental health and faith. And this is how your church can engage. We all like different pizza joints. We all like different hamburger joints. And so not everything is going to fit for every church.

So this is an opportunity to be a, like a Costco sampler of all different resources and tools and people who are engaging in this space. So it's on world mental health day and it is virtually online.

[00:04:25] Cyd: And you said

[00:04:26] Laura Howe: Not virtually online, but online as a virtual summit.

[00:04:30] Cyd: And it's entirely free.

[00:04:33] Laura Howe: It is World Mental Health Days, October 10. So in honor of that, and thanks to the, generosity of our sponsors, it is free on World Mental Health Day. Now, a lot of churches use this as a tool to do ongoing training for their teams, whether it's a. Staff retreat or volunteer onboarding, or maybe just conversations throughout the year.

So they purchase an access pass, but for people who just want to be able to peruse through look, see what's out there. Yes, it is free on October 10th.

[00:05:06] Cyd: That's amazing.

[00:05:07] Geoff: could like peruse.

[00:05:09] Cyd: you said there's how many people or like how many videos that like, I mean, it's massive, right?

[00:05:14] Laura Howe: it is massive. It is about 70 talks, give or take a few. Some people, life happens. The speakers have to bow out last minute. But we are looking at around 70 talks this year, all categories into four different categories. So I try to break it down a little bit easier, but every year the topics are just so broad.

Yeah, around 70 in total.

[00:05:37] Cyd: Amazing. Yeah.

[00:05:39] Geoff: So if you could jump in like the day for free, but then I'm just trying to get the mechanics, but then if you're like, Oh, I really want to like watch this more or wish so and so or our staff, then you can buy the. The thing. And then you have it forever, like all the stuff.

[00:05:54] Laura Howe: Exactly. Yep. All this stuff all the time. It's like Netflix where you just log in and then you can scroll through, click on any talk you want and watch it. And it's that on October 10th, like there's no schedule. This is what people have a hard time wrapping their heads around. It's how does this work?

I don't, there's 70 talks. How do you even schedule that? There is no schedule. I am pretty open about saying that. Everything is pre recorded. It's got Costco sampler size, right? So there's the little micro TED talks, 15, 20 minutes from each speaker. And you can just scroll through and pick the ones that you want to watch.

But many people say, how do I access, or I want to show someone, or can I use this? Can I invite my congregation or have a webinar or use this as a community outreach for my church? And absolutely, yes, you can grab an access pass for your church to use.

[00:06:47] Cyd: okay. So whoever thought we would see the day where there would be a Netflix for

[00:06:51] Laura Howe: Heh.

[00:06:52] Cyd: a church. Like.

[00:06:53] Laura Howe: Ta da! Here it is!

[00:06:55] Cyd: Yeah. So you mentioned a little bit of how this came about, but is there anything more you said that when you were in your church trying to find, you said it felt like you're in a silo, so you thought it'd be great to bring everybody together.

Is there more behind that story of how this came to be?

[00:07:11] Laura Howe: Yeah, I think frustration or anger is a great catalyst for action, and this is definitely one of those stories. So as a social worker, offering counselling and crisis work, and working within my community, as you mentioned in the outset of the podcast, that's what I've been doing for 15 years. So I had no intention in being a social worker.

entrepreneurial or ministry minded, love church, love Jesus, been on missions trip, definitely have a heart for the local church, but never had that as the intention, but the frustration grew as I was working in the community, but yet going to church and. I don't know if anyone's caught on. I'm my accent.

It's very slight, but I am Canadian. And so our healthcare system is quite different. So working in a secular community while going to church, there was restraints and constraints and ethical responsibilities I had to, uphold. And so the frustration was about, there's the Canadian right

[00:08:09] Cyd: Yeah. Yeah. I hear it. Wait, how do you say, how do you say the word that you pull your car into if it's not full of stuff? Like when you drive up your driveway and you pull into the

[00:08:19] Laura Howe: The garage.

[00:08:20] Cyd: Oh, okay.

[00:08:22] Geoff: was very American.

[00:08:23] Laura Howe: I'm from very American. So I'm right. I'm pretty I'm about an hour and a half from the from Buffalo. So I'm pretty 

[00:08:29] Cyd: so you got the American accent for that word.

[00:08:32] Laura Howe: yes, it does change throughout the country, much like the US have different accents. Yes. 

[00:08:37] Cyd: American, right? We just believe all Canadians speak the same way. So, so American of us. Yeah. Okay.

[00:08:44] Laura Howe: It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. But when I was in my church, I would be hearing what they were saying about those who needing support. A lot of assumptions were made, and it just, they weren't accurate to what I was seeing in the community or even how the church was. offering support. No shame on my local church.

Love them to bits. I was part of the conversation. I just think we all make assumptions, like you said, of what people need. And from my perspective of being half in the community, half of the church, it just, they weren't accurate. And so I'm like, there has to be a better way. We need to be able to care for people better.

The church is That is an incredible place for people to find healing. I think what the core needs that people have, and I say this a lot in my hope, made strong work of belonging, purpose, and hope. These are core needs that every person has. The church is exceptional at providing. We just miss the opportunity of doing it.

And so the, that's where the passion came from or the interest or the spark, I guess the frustration that provoked me, the catalyst to start the church mental health summit is like, we need to do better. We just really need to do better. So how can we learn from each other? Not, don't reinvent the wheel.

Let's, you don't have to be all things to all people, but what is really good work out there? What are the tools that have, that have, impact and outcomes that we're like, okay, this is a reliable resource that might work in my community. And so that's what it's all about.

[00:10:13] Cyd: Yeah. And that, I mean, first of all, it's so exciting and exciting that it's four years in a row. I know that, I think I encounter people all the time, myself included, right? Where there are moments where you're just like, I don't know how to deal with this. It's just like. Yeah. I don't know how to handle this.

I don't know how to care for this person. Well, I don't know where my role ends and somebody else needs to begin. I don't know what the boundaries are like with, and so can you maybe say a little bit more about how you address those kinds of questions?

[00:10:45] Laura Howe: Absolutely. So the summit is split into four different tracks. The first one's culture and global or global and culture. And we're talking about missions, those who are serving in a missionary or cross cultural context, because I think there's some unique experiences that they face as well as cultural impacts.

And so I don't want to prescribe a certain way of how someone would engage with a person because I think it is contextual to their culture, their community, their experience. And so we want to offer a different perspectives. And so what is the, the Asian American experience? What is the mental health and faith within the black church or the Latina or Latino church?

And so we offer resources and teachings on that because I think that really impacts how someone. Recognizes, responds, and refers someone to appropriate supports. And then we have the community, track, which is all about the, it's more psychoeducational if that term is, makes sense to people, it's more about the general experiences of mental health.

And I think that one really centers much more on recognizing. What are the signs and symptoms of mental health? What does it look like? What are people experiencing? What does anxiety mean? How can I, talk about medications. We're not prescribing, we're not diagnosing, we're not treating or offer casing management.

What we're doing is we're recognizing what people are experiencing for what they are. And, And then there are some specific tracks. Like I said, it's only 15, 20 minutes, so we can't go too deep into it, but there are, some certain talks specifically, spiritual first aid, which is a presenting partner in, in the event where they talk much more on how to respond appropriately, within the con, within the context of your role and your function and your expertise and then how to refer.

And so we definitely break it down by, I try to break it down, but everyone has a different talk. So whether they're focused on one or the other, it's really hard. Yeah. And then the third track is church health. And that is much more about creating safe spaces, talking about culture, stigma, congregational care, how you can infuse wellbeing into your discipleship process, things like that.

Something that is within the walls of the church, things like small groups or children's ministry. Youth, for example. And then the fourth track is about leadership health. And I think this is a great place to start, even though it's the fourth track, if we're not healthy ourselves, we're really acting as wounded healers.

And I learned that term from a friend of mine, Thad Austin. And he's speaking at the event. It's a really great term to remind ourselves that we all come with bias. and experience that we don't maybe want to slime or pass on to other people. And so really just focusing on, okay, leaders, how can we recognize burnout?

How can we remain healthy? How can we support our families in ministry? Because they often bear the brunt of service that, that, Consumes a lot of time and energy. And so those are the four tracks. And so while we don't have a specific pathway or a framework as a whole, because there's 70 speakers, every speaker addresses an aspect of that recognizing, responding, and referring appropriately within the context of your role.

[00:14:12] Cyd: I am so, so glad that you included that fourth category. I mean, that's largely where the work I do centers on is like, we lead out of our own health. And if we don't, if we aren't, if we aren't feeling strong and resilient, and if we don't have the capacity and the resources as leaders, then people that come to us are just a burden.

Right. It's like one more person who's going to take something from me that I don't have available to me, especially if you're in the middle of burnout and feeling, compassion, fatigue and exhaustion and everything else. And then someone comes at you with this intense need. And of course, it's a natural response when you're in that.

place already to just say, I can't do it. I can't do it. And I get involved. Like I won't touch you with a 10 foot pole. And so I love that you've included that track of like, how do you as a leader remain healthy and well, so that you can actually be a resource for other people. And so you can recognize and respond and refer.

So

[00:15:13] Laura Howe: Yes. And I share. Love it. Hey, we're talking to preachers here. We gotta have that.

[00:15:22] Geoff: Absolutely. Well, I just.

[00:15:24] Cyd: Jeff and I are always arguing about whether something needs to alliterate or not. And he's always like, it has to start with the same letter. And I'm like, no, it's too cute. Just let it be what it is. And he's like, no, it has to be sticky. It's gotta be like the

[00:15:35] Geoff: they'll remember it. So, well, I'm just going to hand it back to the both of you. Cause you know, we can't talk about all four of those like, tracks, but I think you both probably have a lot of experience on the leadership track. I know Laura, that you also have another kind of ministry or business, hope made strong, that is specifically for church leaders and helping do some of that stuff.

And Sid, you do a lot of work, obviously with leaders and coaching and spiritual direction. So I'll just throw a question out to the two of you. What is it? Maybe. About the leadership role or the people who find themselves in leadership. We will ask the negative and then the positive that like keeps them from getting the help that they need, or even keeps them from recognizing that they like need help.

I'm just going to eat whoever wants to jump in first. 

[00:16:17] Cyd: Oh, those

[00:16:18] Laura Howe: Well, I can,

[00:16:19] Cyd: yeah. Go ahead,

[00:16:20] Laura Howe: go ahead. Well,

[00:16:21] Geoff: no, after you, no, after you.

[00:16:23] Laura Howe: there you go. There's the helper in us. Well, I was just going to share a little bit of my story, not a long, just saying that I can empathize with this because I have experienced compassionate that required, therapy. Counseling, time off of work, sick time and being away because when you were describing, I guess this is video based, but when you were, for those who are listening on the podcast, when you were describing, people experiencing burnout, you put your hands, both hands up in a stop position.

And there was a time when I found myself doing that with a client and I'm. Very ashamed of saying that, but it's the raw, honest truth that they were unloading a whole lot of trauma on me from their past. And at that point I was fully in fatigue and, nightmares at night and like exhaustion and emotional regularity.

I was. The tipping point, but I did not see it in myself until I caused until I crossed that boundary with the client where I inhibited them from sharing their story and seeking healing for themselves because I was protecting myself. I did not see the anger that I was expressing to my family at the end of the day.

I wasn't seeing how I was. Isolating myself or how my physical health was being impact until it impacted my clients. And I just can empathize with anyone who is struggling with seeing the signs and symptoms because I most certainly didn't either. And it wasn't until I took time off and I was like, Oh, I'm going to take two weeks off and I'll be back to work.

What am I supposed to do? Nothing. Just rest. Are you kidding me? My whole life is serving others, whether it's my young children or my clients or my community and volunteering. And then those first two weeks I've never been so sick in my life because my body shut down and was like, desperate for healing.

And it took two months. for me to even begin to feel normal and healthy again. And so I don't know if that answers your question, but it's just sharing a little bit of my story that I can empathize with someone who struggles with seeing the signs and symptoms.

[00:18:35] Geoff: you for sharing that.

[00:18:36] Cyd: Yeah, I think, and I mean, just before I talk from my own perspective, too, is I think that's that makes so much sense when you think about like your nervous system and how, your nervous system has 2 priorities. It can either connect with people, or it can protect. You and it doesn't do both at the same time very well or very often.

And so just that sense of like, when you're in that mode where you're like, you're already defaulted into that, I have to protect myself state. It's too threatening to notice that you might be hurting other people or that you might be impacting other people in a negative way because you're already in protection mode.

And so all you can see is what's coming at me. What's going to drain me. How do I keep myself together? How do I survive this? And when that's the case, you're not going to notice. That like, oh, I'm snapping at people because that's. It's scary to look at because it's going to mess with your survival. So just in your story, I think, that's one of the things I would say is that I think we don't, I think as and a lot of this is just the culture we've been shaped in and the way that we've grown up.

I think. The younger generations are getting better at it of being aware of bodies and how bodies impact life and how life impacts our bodies. But I think there's a lot of disconnect, in the church between body, soul, mind. And so it's this sense of like, it's easy to fall into the trap.

And I know I have fallen into that trap of like, a good disciple does not ever. Take time for themselves or, a good disciple doesn't ever turn people away. Like Jesus was exhausted when he walked into a crowd of 5, 000 people and he didn't send him away. He started teaching them and then he fed them.

And like, and so if you look at Jesus as the example, it's always like, well, Jesus doesn't seem to really get weary. Like he just keeps going and then he has these beautiful times of communion with his father. And then he comes out of that refresh to perform more miracles. And so I think there's that sort of expectation of like the, and I think it comes down to identity and self perception.

of, like you said, Laura, who am I if I'm not helping people? And so there becomes this sense of, I'm so used to being the one who helps the one who serves the one who has something helpful to offer that, like, if I don't have that, and if I don't do that, Then what does that say about me as a person, as a human, what does it say about me as a follower of Jesus?

And so I think those are scary questions. And then when you add to that, that a lot of leaders have a hard time developing significant friendships within their communities. It's just really hard sometimes to have a reciprocal relationship with people within your community because there is so much expectation on you as a leader and then people are unconsciously putting all of their baggage and woundedness on you and, reacting to you as if they're reacting to the person who hurt them 10 years ago and not aware that's what they're doing.

And Transcribed by https: otter. ai So I think there's, it's complex why we end up not recognizing the signs and why we end up not prioritizing our own mental health. But that's why I'm so glad that you have a whole track dedicated to that. And I'm so glad that conversation about healthy leaders, I feel like it's becoming more out in the open and less of a hiding in the closet, chatting with other people going, are you sick of people too?

Thank you. Bye.

[00:22:10] Laura Howe: Yeah, you said something interesting there. And I know this isn't the top of our conversation, but I just wanted to highlight it for a second that, that the body as Christians, at least where the timeline that I grew up in, we often talked about the body as being something negative and we have to, it's the flesh, the body, we have to cast it down or set it aside or hold it back to let the spirit.

Move. And I think we're, like you said, we're recognizing now that the body is a gift. It's part of who we are. God created. It is not something to be suppressed or ignored or pushed down, but you know, welcomed and respected, honored, listened to and treated well. And knowing that it is part of us, not something to be ignored or pushed away.

[00:22:56] Cyd: Yeah. And actually we're not human without it. Right.

[00:22:59] Laura Howe: Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:01] Cyd: Jeff and

[00:23:01] Laura Howe: key.

[00:23:02] Cyd: I mean, Jeff and I are so convinced of this that's why the podcast is called embodied faith, right? It's impossible to have a faith that is not embodied, like whether you like it or not, you're carrying it around inside a body.

So, but yeah, it's. It's so good that we're recognizing that the body is not just baggage we haul around, but one of the way it's the only place God can meet us is it's the only place we can be.

[00:23:30] Laura Howe: It's

[00:23:31] Geoff: So what would be, and we can just stay on the leadership thing, but then, and I'll start with you, Laura, what would be, whether it's something you learned, personally, or just things you've learned through the past summits, but what would be like two things that leaders can do for themselves to help with their like mental health lives?

This is the moving from surviving to thriving. Like what are, what is like maybe just two things you'd want to throw out to encourage other people?

[00:23:57] Laura Howe: I think you mentioned it, earlier about having, friendships and connection. We often, get really heady into what, it's a huge problem that's over feeling overwhelming. So it must have a huge solution and a complicated solution, but I try to keep things simple as possible. I don't need any more complexities to my life.

Thank you very much. So I would like just keep things simple. So I would say having fun. And connecting with other people. Hey, if you can

[00:24:23] Geoff: Friends and fun, actually. The two that. Yeah.

[00:24:26] Laura Howe: Friends and fun. Oh, the alliteration, bringing it back. Thank you very much. Yeah, friends, just connecting. And these don't have to be, you don't have to meet weekly, but having a friend that you are accountable with and can connect with whether it's a cousin, a brother, a sister, a college friend, doesn't matter who it is, but someone to connect with.

So you can be who you are, not the title of who you are, the expectation, but just be you and then fun. Fun is so healthy. Like when was the last time you had fun? I was talking with a pastor about this, just, overcoming burnout and building resiliency. And we really settled in on this aspect of fun.

I was like, what did you do when you were eight years old? Like, what was it? Was it biking? Was it Lego? What was it? And they said that they used to decorate their doll house. And I was like, that's so cool. And how creative is that has nothing to do with people. It's just creativity and doing something that is pleasurable, that it looks beautiful and is just simple.

And so they got their dollhouse out as a 40 year old leader out of the attic and went to the, dollar store, the crafting store. And in the evening. They just played and they said it was so refreshing. I know it seems simple, but it's, I think we just think everything needs to be serious or we have to produce something or, that hustle culture, but really having fun and play is healing.

And it's the joy of the Lord, right? We want to just be someone not do be, it's not all about doing it's about being, so I would say friends and fun.

[00:26:05] Geoff: Well, Sid, do you, really quickly, do you have any, two others? One or two that you want to add to that?

[00:26:09] Cyd: Yeah. Mine probably won't alliterate. I'll just tell you now.

[00:26:14] Laura Howe: Oh, we'll figure it out. We'll find a

[00:26:16] Cyd: Yeah. I think, one of the, I think joy, I love that you said fun and play, cause I think that's really important, but I also think there's a lot of people who find themselves so deep in burnout that fun feels like too much work. And so I would say, I think probably the best thing anybody can do for themselves is to befriend their own body and to learn, 

[00:26:38] Geoff: What?

[00:26:38] Cyd: I did say befriend your body, but it's only one 

[00:26:41] Geoff: true. She already said friends, so just make friends with your own body. It's like an

[00:26:45] Cyd: yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's why I'm so passionate about doing the online courses that I do, like just teaching like about what is going on in your body and why do you react that way and how can you do things in your body, whether it's moving or breathing or, whatever it's doing to help you to calm yourself so that you can stop prioritizing protection and even just for a few moments, prioritize connection so that you can hang out with friends and have fun.

So I would say that Laura's ideas and my ideas come together in that when you befriend your body and learn what's going on in your body and learn how you can work with your body to bring yourself to a place of having enough energy to then go pursue a friendship or go pursue something fun.

[00:27:29] Laura Howe: I think it's so funny that the social worker did, the practical thing and the therapist did like the reflective

[00:27:37] Cyd: Oh, I'm not a therapist.

[00:27:39] Laura Howe: not a therapist, you

[00:27:41] Geoff: spiritual director coach. Yeah, exactly.

[00:27:44] Laura Howe: spiritual director. I just was like, Oh, this is so on brand for what we do.

[00:27:49] Geoff: to both those

points. 

[00:27:51] Cyd: each other really well. I mean, I

[00:27:53] Laura Howe: Yeah, I agree.

[00:27:54] Geoff: Well, that's the thing is, we are. Part of what we talk about as being embodied and embodied faith is, certainly your own physical bodies, but also your embedded relationships, right? So how you're embedded in the ways, will, affect you in substantial

[00:28:10] Cyd: catch that? Embodied and embedded. He's all

[00:28:13] Geoff: I got two more too. But, and I tell, I tell leaders this all the time. The next. Best, most spiritual thing you could do is good to get a good night's rest. Like, just sleep more, as best as you can. For sure. Well, thank you so much for, just sharing the, the vision for, the meth, the church mental health summit, as well as just your own personal story and some of your, leadership kind of reflections, where can people find out all this stuff?

I'll be sure to get it in the show notes, but how can people make sure not to miss this on October 10th?

[00:28:44] Laura Howe: Church Mental health summit.com is the website where you can sign up for free. If you're looking for that access pass, just keep scrolling down that page and you'll have links to AC to do the access pass. If you're curious more about what I do around congregational care, you can find me@hopemadestrong.org.

[00:29:01] Geoff: Excellent.

[00:29:02] Cyd: And I just want to put a little note in there. Like I looked at my own calendar when I found out about this and I have a pretty full day that day, but I'm going to sign up anyway, because even if I only get to watch 1 or 2 or 3 of those little 15 to 20 minute talks, I know that's still going to be a benefit to me.

And then, and then if I love it, I can do the access. past, but I just want to like encourage anybody who's like, Oh, I have plans on October 10. Even if it's only one or two talks, there might be something that just really hugely encourages you or equips you in a new way or raises awareness in some way.

So it's, I would say it's worth doing even if it's only one or two talks. So it's free, F R E, free.

[00:29:43] Laura Howe: And there's no schedule. I think that's what trips people up to time zones and things like that. It's like, Oh, I can't shuffle my day. You don't have to shovel your day. Just have to log on and scroll and click. And there you go. 20 minutes while you're eating lunch.

[00:29:56] Geoff: I love

[00:29:57] Cyd: Perfect.

[00:29:57] Geoff: Well, thank you again. And all those links and everything will be in the show notes, please like, and subscribe to the podcast. If you're listening, you can find this on Google, Spotify, Apple, all places, and share this around with other people that, maybe you think. Would like to be a part of the summit, but thanks again, Laura.

And, let's stay in touch for sure.

[00:30:17] Cyd: Yeah. Fun to be with you, Laura.

[00:30:20] Laura Howe: You as well. Take care. 

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